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Old 06-30-2023, 02:42 PM   #1
business_kid
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How to find a guy's paper trail in England.


An aquaintance of mine died alone in London recently. He was discovered by the smell coming from his apartment. He was about 50. He was brought back here by a charity and buried by his parents (in their eighties).

He was not poor. He owned his apartment, and had a car, money and probably business interests of some sort. But despite access to his apartment, we can't find
  • His car keys (I'm sure he had transport).
  • His laptop or computer (he would have had one)
  • His bank account(s) or his bank(s).
  • He probably had some business going - wedding photography, window cleaning, something like that. We have no details.
  • His solicitor, if he had one
  • His accountant.
  • At this time we don't even have his insurance number or income tax number.

Now, as the police were involved, they may have taken certain items in an attempt to trace his next of kin. The police failed to trace anyone. My son discovered by chance because the police contacted his local religious congregation, which he had left. They knew someone here in Ireland, and asked him, and two dozen phone calls later, things were happening. Things work that way in Ireland.

My son is going over at the request of the elderly parents to try and do something, but how do you go about tracking someone like that? We will have my son's feet on the ground in a week or two. Is there anything that can be done online? What can he do when he gets there?
 
Old 06-30-2023, 02:51 PM   #2
rokytnji
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Clueless here in Texas. I'd talk to my cop neighbor for my options.

Don't know how good this is.
https://www.freelegalhelpline.co.uk/
 
Old 06-30-2023, 04:15 PM   #3
dugan
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Well, the obvious response is for his parents to hire a private detective.

Last edited by dugan; 06-30-2023 at 04:42 PM.
 
Old 06-30-2023, 05:46 PM   #4
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Sorry for your loss!

First thought:
Usually if someone is found dead and items are missing (especially, keys-wallet-computer etc...), it points towards one of two things
a) foul play
b) active police investigation

Contact the local police and ask for an inventory of items taken from the apartment, his parents may need to do this or they can assign you to do this in writing. If the police do not have those items then it gets more interesting.

Another possibility is that your friend wanted to be off radar so to speak. Did he have a recent girlfriend, any new friends, ex-wife, sibling etc... that would gain from his death? Just thinking out loud, but unfortunately these are the types of questions that need asking, rule them out first and then go from there.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles...s-and-inquests

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/6...quest_system/3

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/6...quest_system/6

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/whe...d-to-a-coroner

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/coroners

https://www.192.com/

https://relativeconnections.co.uk/how-to-find-someone/

Last edited by ChuangTzu; 06-30-2023 at 06:09 PM. Reason: added links
 
Old 06-30-2023, 08:31 PM   #5
frankbell
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The General Registrar's Office might be resource.
 
Old 07-01-2023, 11:21 AM   #6
273
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You can't really trace it and that may have been how he wanted it.
The UK has tighter privacy laws than a lot of places but I'm not sure what you need from this?
 
Old 07-01-2023, 01:32 PM   #7
business_kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Sorry for your loss!

First thought:
Usually if someone is found dead and items are missing (especially, keys-wallet-computer etc...), it points towards one of two things
a) foul play
b) active police investigation

Contact the local police and ask for an inventory of items taken from the apartment, his parents may need to do this or they can assign you to do this in writing. If the police do not have those items then it gets more interesting.

Another possibility is that your friend wanted to be off radar so to speak. Did he have a recent girlfriend, any new friends, ex-wife, sibling etc... that would gain from his death? Just thinking out loud, but unfortunately these are the types of questions that need asking, rule them out first and then go from there.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles...s-and-inquests

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/6...quest_system/3

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/6...quest_system/6

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/whe...d-to-a-coroner

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/coroners

https://www.192.com/

https://relativeconnections.co.uk/how-to-find-someone/
Thanks to all and for this comprehensive reply.

To answer some: The police are involved, and say they have nothing. I'll get my son to bring their authority to chase stuff, and see if they have anything, but they claim to have nothing. Perhaps a nearby business place?

He did have a wife, who left him as he was mentally unstable (untreated Schizophrenia or bipolar at a guess). He was normal enough to live life but burned through friends quickly. I did say he was my aquaintance, not friend. The wife probably stands to inherit the lot. But there may be a will. The wife is a gentle soul, was totally screwed up by the experience of being married to him, and left on a plane for her native Hungary when this broke.

My brother is a solicitor, and solicitor's inquiries get answered more than private detectives or others, so that is one avenue that just needs authority from one claimant to the estate. The parents will do that, so we have a plan. He also intends to try the local area armed with a photograph. If we can find his place of business, that gives his laptop, etc.

There was a police post-mortem. He died of sepsis. He probably got sick and went to bed when he should have gone to hospital.
 
Old 07-01-2023, 04:44 PM   #8
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
To answer some: The police are involved, and say they have nothing. I'll get my son to bring their authority to chase stuff, and see if they have anything, but they claim to have nothing. Perhaps a nearby business place?
Interesting...Perhaps check with local PO Box/Mail box rentals in the area. Did he receive post at home or at a rental location? Any local internet cafes or businesses in the area where one could rent computers? If so, perhaps he was a patron.

Quote:
He did have a wife, who left him as he was mentally unstable (untreated Schizophrenia or bipolar at a guess). He was normal enough to live life but burned through friends quickly. I did say he was my aquaintance, not friend.
If he was of the paranoia type (common with Schizophrenia) then he most likely would take precautions or take certain measures as a result of the paranoia (ie: postal box rental, internet cafes etc...). Note to everyone, I am not saying that if you use those services that you are paranoid, I am just saying that those with paranoia do often use them.

Quote:
the wife probably stands to inherit the lot. But there may be a will. The wife is a gentle soul, was totally screwed up by the experience of being married to him, and left on a plane for her native Hungary when this broke.
Well now, this is very interesting and would be a paper trail worth looking into. Who benefits the most from a persons death/will etc.. is almost always the first place to look. Someone who quickly leaves the area/country etc... shortly after another's death almost always seems suspicious even if benign.

These may help:
https://guides.loc.gov/hungary-telephone-directories
https://www.gov.uk/world/organisatio...bassy-budapest

Quote:
He died of sepsis. He probably got sick and went to bed when he should have gone to hospital.
Did they list what caused the sepsis? What type of infection was it? Local clinics in the area could be a useful source of information and your brother/solicitor could request the info. especially if its part of a death inquest.
 
Old 07-01-2023, 04:46 PM   #9
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
You can't really trace it and that may have been how he wanted it.
The UK has tighter privacy laws than a lot of places but I'm not sure what you need from this?
Anyone can be traced/found, its only a question of: is it worth looking, is the cost/time/effort worth it. Very few people can live 100% off the grid with no contact to any modern service or technology etc..., heck even homeless people leave a trail.

Last edited by ChuangTzu; 07-01-2023 at 04:58 PM.
 
Old 07-02-2023, 01:06 PM   #10
business_kid
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Going on his previous habits, he wasn't particularly paranoid. I would have expected him to have been self-employed in one (or more)capacities. I would have expected laptop & mobile to be at home or on his person. Those were his habits.

Now it's 10 years since I've seen him, and let's presume his mental health got worse. He still kept in touch with his wife. Having served as an elder in the past,I can add that the Congregation would have urged him to
  1. Seek treatment for his mental condition, and take it.
  2. Try to repair the relationship with his wife and save the marriage.
Apparently he hadn't taken that advice fully. Let me ask you legal eagles:
  • If there is a will pre-dating the marriage, does it stand?
  • If there is a will after the marriage not mentioning the wife, what's her position?
He's always open to the challenge about 'being of sound mind,' but that's messy to challenge posthumously.
 
Old 07-02-2023, 09:53 PM   #11
rokytnji
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Quote:
Apparently he hadn't taken that advice fully. Let me ask you legal eagles:

If there is a will pre-dating the marriage, does it stand?
If there is a will after the marriage not mentioning the wife, what's her position?
Irish law is different than mine. That is for sure.
 
Old 07-03-2023, 04:09 AM   #12
yancek
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Quote:
If there is a will pre-dating the marriage, does it stand?
I'm not familiar with Irish law but in the USA, it would be valid but the wife could go to court to make a claim.

Quote:
If there is a will after the marriage not mentioning the wife, what's her position?
Same as above, she would need to go to court to make a claim. I would expect she would probably be successful but that's just a guess. The link below describes the difference between a will and a trust. A will (in the US at least) must go through probate court which can be a lengthy process. A trust does not go to court.

https://www.inheritancefunding.com/w...hoC7z0QAvD_BwE

Again, this information is all US related but I would expect Irish law is similar.
 
Old 07-03-2023, 04:57 AM   #13
business_kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek
Again, this information is all US related but I would expect Irish law is similar.
That's a brave statement. Our Constitutions differ considerably, our president is a figurehead, and you can have contradictary State & Federal laws. Look at Utah. Our law is more based on English law. We only recently enough got rid of an antiquated regulation requiring taxis to carry horse feed at all times!

On succession Law, there was some Law passed here protecting families, but it's English Law here, because he croaked his last in England.
 
Old 07-03-2023, 05:12 AM   #14
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
If there is a will pre-dating the marriage, does it stand?
Depends whether the will was made in Ireland or the UK. Under UK law, marriage automatically invalidates any previous will.
Quote:
If there is a will after the marriage not mentioning the wife, what's her position?
Don't know about that. But if there was no will (or if any previous will was now invalid), the wife would inherit automatically.
 
Old 07-03-2023, 06:20 AM   #15
business_kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Depends whether the will was made in Ireland or the UK. Under UK law, marriage automatically invalidates any previous will.

Don't know about that. But if there was no will (or if any previous will was now invalid), the wife would inherit automatically.
The most probable case is that the wife is the beneficiary anyhow. Good to know marriage invalidates any previous will. It's unlikely he left her out of his will as
they were on good terms but I was simply covering all bases as he wasn't the most predictable person you could meet.

EDIT: In fact, I'm surprised he had a will.
 
  


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