There would be fewer rubbish posts in this forum if Kali was banned!

I wonder why a sizeable number of newbies choose kali?

Boys and their toys. Instead of learning how to ride on a tricycle gradually progessing, they want to start with a Fat Boy.

I agree with Jeremy. Banning them would be a mistake and contrary to the spirit of Linux questions.

I think this a somewhat complicated subject and in the end, the outcome of the debate doesn't matter. To be clear, I don't think banning is the way to go.

But I don't agree that anything is particularly any more difficult in Kali than any other linux distro.

Especially being Debian based, there is absolutely no reason that a knowledgeable user cannot use it as a do-it-all desktop.

However, it's also blatantly apparent that the majority of the Kali questions I see on this forum are from people who have no idea what they are doing. They usually appear to be trying to follow some step-by-step guide they found somewhere without having any idea what actually is happening when they enter any given command and therefore have no idea what happened or how to fix.

They often are advised to try another, more "user friendly" distro. While I agree that you need to learn to crawl before you can run, they don't really have any clue what the difference between Kali and any other distro is. Which is basically the tools that come preinstalled and a custom kernel, and therefore even if they did move to a new "user friendly" distro, if they're still trying to follow the same guide they're only going to have more issues.

I also don't think a "user friendly" distro is going to do them any favors as far as learning how linux works, which is needed if you want to actually understand or make anything work in Kali.

I won't necessarily not help someone because they chose to use Kali, but I definitely am not trying to hold anyone's hand who won't put any effort into helping themselves. That goes for any distro. Do there seem to be many more Kali questions that I ignore compared to other distros? Yes. But if you have a well put together question with a clear goal, I'm more than willing to help. It's just most of the time, the issue isn't going to be Kali specific. So a little googling is going to solve just about every problem you might have with Kali

But a determined person, willing to put in the time and effort to learn, can definitely do so. But most people with Kali questions want to say nothing more than "Help" and expect 1000 word essays with step by step instructions on how to solve their issue.

Originally Posted by TheEzekielProject I think this a somewhat complicated subject and in the end, the outcome of the debate doesn't matter. To be clear, I don't think banning is the way to go. But I don't agree that anything is particularly any more difficult in Kali than any other linux distro. Especially being Debian based, there is absolutely no reason that a knowledgeable user cannot use it as a do-it-all desktop. ... They often are advised to try another, more "user friendly" distro. While I agree that you need to learn to crawl before you can run, they don't really have any clue what the difference between Kali and any other distro is. Which is basically the tools that come preinstalled and a custom kernel, and therefore even if they did move to a new "user friendly" distro, if they're still trying to follow the same guide they're only going to have more issues.

I have a feeling that you've missed the kind of posts this is about. The people posting are generally asking, for example, how to install VirtualBox in Kali so that they can run some other distribution as as guest or asking how to install Steam or something else equally as trivial in most other distributions but non-trivial in Kali because of the various customisations and the fact it runs as root by default. What is being done when they are told to use something like Mint is to tell them to start using Linux day-to-day and, perhaps, have to deal with a wireless driver or enabling multilib for Steam etc. but giving them a glimpse as to how Linux works. They will also learn how most distributions do not allow root a graphical login by default. They may then be able to install the "killer apps" they want, which probably amount to nmap and wireshark anyhow, and pretend to be Mr Robot all they want.

If they were asking how to configure and use one of Kali's tools (in other words, how to actually use Kali for it's real purpose) then those who have the knowledge will likely answer and threads like this would not be born.

URG RHali broke no cmd screen .fix me asap how?

But poster never logs into LQ again.

Maybe the 'sticky' needs some (polite) way of saying: Learn 'soft skills':
"Learn to www-search, and to 'properly' describe 'It dont work' "

With my limited skills&expertise, digging in rubbish is my 'hobby'.
Occasionally (rarely tho), I find something worth saving, to enjoy.

Maybe there's a way to quarantine such, in an isolated forum/site,
that still maintains the 'niceness' of LQ. Idk. LQ 'just works',
like is said about Slackware

From Kali's own developers:

Is Kali Linux Right For You? As the distribution’s developers, you might expect us to recommend that everyone should be using Kali Linux. The fact of the matter is, however, that Kali is a Linux distribution specifically geared towards professional penetration testers and security specialists, and given its unique nature, it is NOT a recommended distribution if you’re unfamiliar with Linux or are looking for a general-purpose Linux desktop distribution for development, web design, gaming, etc. Even for experienced Linux users, Kali can pose some challenges. Although Kali is an open source project, it’s not a wide-open source project, for reasons of security. The development team is small and trusted, packages in the repositories are signed both by the individual committer and the team, and — importantly — the set of upstream repositories from which updates and new packages are drawn is very small. Adding repositories to your software sources which have not been tested by the Kali Linux development team is a good way to cause problems on your system. While Kali Linux is architected to be highly customizable, don’t expect to be able to add random unrelated packages and repositories that are “out of band” of the regular Kali software sources and have it Just Work. In particular, there is absolutely no support whatsoever for the apt-add-repository command, LaunchPad, or PPAs. Trying to install Steam on your Kali Linux desktop is an experiment that will not end well. Even getting a package as mainstream as NodeJS onto a Kali Linux installation can take a little extra effort and tinkering. If you are unfamiliar with Linux generally, if you do not have at least a basic level of competence in administering a system, if you are looking for a Linux distribution to use as a learning tool to get to know your way around Linux, or if you want a distro that you can use as a general purpose desktop installation, Kali Linux is probably not what you are looking for. In addition, misuse of security and penetration testing tools within a network, particularly without specific authorization, may cause irreparable damage and result in significant consequences, personal and/or legal. “Not understanding what you were doing” is not going to work as an excuse.

I rest my case.

It is a good thing our benevolent dictator is more benevolent than a good proportion of others on this list. Myself included.
The mods (especially rtmistler of late I note) do a fine job also of toning down responses that may seem less than welcoming (yes, guilty as charged).

As for kali posts, I have refused to read them for some time now. Bad attitude ? ... :shrug:

Knowing that the OP would not actually "do" anything like "banning", I take her/his shorthand as motivation to reflect... And seeing how "you" use to handle dumb postings on LQ, I am rather proud to be part of it.

Do not change anything. Ignoring Kali works fine, I confirm.

Can we just have this as a :kali: "smilie"

The typical Kali Newbie comes here as if LQ is some human Google. And never logs back in after the first or second post.

So let's point them to the Kali sticky and that is it. No matter how much time you put in, they simply do not have the experience level that anything you say make sense.

After some time and effort (and maybe they don't put any time and effort in it anyway) they will discover Kali was the wrong point to start of Linux. And without experience they cannot do the cracking they intended.

On a recent thread someone posted: "we are willing to help discovering Linux once you have chosen a normal distro". I am in favor of adding this comment to the sticky.

jlinkels

Originally Posted by jlinkels The typical Kali Newbie comes here as if LQ is some human Google. And never logs back in after the first or second post. So let's point them to the Kali sticky and that is it. No matter how much time you put in, they simply do not have the experience level that anything you say make sense. After some time and effort (and maybe they don't put any time and effort in it anyway) they will discover Kali was the wrong point to start of Linux. And without experience they cannot do the cracking they intended. On a recent thread someone posted: "we are willing to help discovering Linux once you have chosen a normal distro". I am in favor of adding this comment to the sticky. jlinkels

Nailed it!

Originally Posted by jlinkels The typical Kali Newbie comes here as if LQ is some human Google. And never logs back in after the first or second post. So let's point them to the Kali sticky and that is it. No matter how much time you put in, they simply do not have the experience level that anything you say make sense. After some time and effort (and maybe they don't put any time and effort in it anyway) they will discover Kali was the wrong point to start of Linux. And without experience they cannot do the cracking they intended. On a recent thread someone posted: "we are willing to help discovering Linux once you have chosen a normal distro". I am in favor of adding this comment to the sticky.

Agree to this 100%. And banning Kali threads won't reduce any 'rubbish posts' one bit...how many threads are here reading like:

• Need link to download the Red Hat
• Want a script for xxxx, plz itz URGENT
• ...etc.

Not Kali based at all, but still rubbish. Stickies and other things don't help much if the posters don't read them, and without any sort of first-few-post moderation (suggested and rejected before), there's no way to stop someone posting about kali.

Did we get as many posts when it was called BackTrack? Maybe naming a distro after the Hindu goddess of destruction is an added attraction? Rename it to FluffyCute Linux and watch the post numbers fall.

Originally Posted by brianL Did we get as many posts when it was called BackTrack? Maybe naming a distro after the Hindu goddess of destruction is an added attraction? Rename it to FluffyCute Linux and watch the post numbers fall.

that may attract a whole, different, kind of interest which may be as bad ("Yiffy!").
I think a better proposition is to ask Red Hat to pay whichever studio makes Mr Robot a few dollars (which will be more than they're getting now from Kali) to get the main guy (Elliott?) To use Red Hat or Fedora instead.

As for kali posts, I have refused to read them for some time now. Bad attitude ? ... :shrug:

+1
How do you help someone that does not read the distro documentation?

At least I now have an explanation for the outbreak of Kali posts.

I like the suggestion from @jlinkels.

Did we get as many posts when it was called BackTrack?

Good question. I think the answer is, "No."

I second jsbjsb001's suggestion. Point them to Kali's own statements and hope they can figure out that Kali is for grown-ups. They shan't, of course, but we shall have done our part.

After that, ignore them.